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Curious that so many of the mottoes remain in Latin. I realize when many were created Latin was the language of the educated and leadership, but as Scots are in a national renaissance there would be more translated to Gaelic.
Clan Macfarlane motto: This I'll Defend
Macquarrie -- "To me God is my strong arm."
Macdonald -- "By sea and by aiir."
Henderson -- "Virtue alone enobles."
I agree, only problem is gaelic is'nt a common language translated, whereas latin is still somewhat universal. If you open a translator on the web..you won't find Gaelic as easily as Latin. Maybe that's why?
Well that sounds logical!
Bloody Romans still infiltrating... thought they were put in their place by the Visigoths.
I guess that the United States Army is a direct descendant of Clan Macfarlane. The Motto of the US Army is "This We'll Defend." The United States Marine Corps must have descended from the Macdonalds since their song goes something like: "by air and by land and by sea." (I have two sons who have served in the Army National Guard. My third son is currently serving active duty with the US Army in Germany, having just returned from Iraq. We are well acquainted with US Army at our house.)
Kennedy is Consider the End.
Actually, a lot of the Clan Mottoes are good advice for anyone. And Latin, unfortunately remains, a language that is more available to most people. I took Latin in my US public school. I don't know of any US public school where I could have taken Gaelic. (I took classical and koine Greek at a private US college, but they didn't teach Gaelic either.) I think perhaps the mottoes need to stay in Latin for all the Scots in dispersion who are denied the oppourunity to study Gaelic.
quickfind:jokennedy > "perhaps the mottoes need to stay in Latin for all the Scots in dispersion who are denied the oppourunity to study Gaelic."
Could be, or using Gaelic for the mottoes would inspire more to study Gaelic?
Sounds like a nice idea, Alysen. However, a lot of Scots in dispersion are in the US, and well, we decided to get rid of foreign stuff and make everything done in our native language, English.* Except that we decided to get rid of the English in a war back in the 1770s. And according to the words from "My Fair Lady" in reference to the English language, "The Americans haven't spoken it in years!" We have this idea that everyone should learn to speak a language similar to that thing we try to pass off as English, and some of us will try to learn French, Spanish, or German. The scholars study Latin, and the seminary students study Greek and Hebrew (except some of us studied Latin and Greek just for fun). Nice idea, but so many of us in dispersion would just lose out on the mottoes altogether.
Perhaps a compromise: mottoes written in Latin and Gaelic both? A chance to introduce the stubborn headed to the mother tongue?
* Of course, English, in any form, is not the native language of any real native American. Any body have any idea why we can't even have our own name for us? We get called Americans. Canadians are Americans and Mexicans are too. They have their own names that tell you where they are from. We just get called Americans. Any body have a good name for the people of the US to call themselves, perhaps a good Gaelic name? Since we are the United States, should we be called Statesmen?
I just got thinking, if clan mottoes should be written in Gaelic, shouldn't Canada be required to translate that one Province from Latin to Gaelic? What is Gaelic for Nova Scotia? I know that New Scotland is English for Nova Scotia, but I don't know what is Gaelic for Nova Scotia.
I haven't a clue what the Gaelic word for new is. And is the world Scotland Gaelic or English, then what would be the Gaelic for Scotland.
Nova Scotia has a vibrant Gaelic speaking culture. They've introduced the language into some of their public school curriculum to keep their ancestry alive and well. In fact, throughout Canada you will find pockets of communities adding the language of their ancestors in their schools, including Cree, Inuit, etc.
Quebec... is Quebec. They fought for French being one of the official languages and amongst the federal civil service it is used a bit more than English, and any attempt to bring another language into the fold would be our civil war.
Not that I begrudge anyone's ability to speak languages, I just find the fanatics hard to deal with on any issue.
I'm not sure I could learn to speak and read Gaelic, none of the many years of French ever sunk in. English is my mother, and this torture chamber has me locked in so that I just can't get my head out to learn another.
I think its important any language that can still be learned needs to have it's place amongst the traditions. I am surprised the impetus for Gaelic preservation is not included, with verve, in the Scottish National campaign.
I agree that language preservation is, indeed, a very honorable goal. It is a great cultural loss when any language is forever lost. I hope the pockets of Gaelic speaking people will keep it alive. Perhaps they can share it with the rest of us somehow. I think of language populations like animal populations. Sometiimes they are dynamic and growing, however they can dwindle and become extinct. In our modern era, when an animal species is one the verge of extinction, they can be put into captive breeding programs at zoos and when a large enough population has been created, they can be released to the wild in an attempt to help them take over their rightful place in nature. However, I don't think that Gaelic speaking people would take kindly to being placed in a zoo to breed in captivity. Perhaps we should put them on faculties and create a captive language education program? Then we could create more Gaelic speaking people?
I googled it. I think that Nova Scotia might be something like An Nua Albain in Gaelic. Would their postal abbreviation be changed from NS to ANA? What would Canada think of changing the name of one of its Provinces? Should we start a organization trying to get Canada to change the Latin-named Scottish Province to Gaelic? What should we call it? Scots for ANA?
Here in Iowa, we heard about the issues Quebec has had with the Canadian government about its official language. At one time, we heard talk about Quebec wanting to secede from Canada and become one of the United States because we didn't officially have an official language. I don't know that anyone was actually serious about that but it made for some humorous speculation here.
Ahh well in Quebec the issue of succession resulted in two referendums and the last a very close margin not to leave Canada. It ended the debate constitutionally. According to many it was not a laughing matter, but one must learn to laugh at one's self in order to keep one's sanity. ;-)
mm I wonder if changing the name would be of interest to Nova Scotians. There are a number of members living there, posing the question in Scotster would give the answer.
A few years back the Northwest Territories divided itself and the eastern part became the province of Inuvut, the land of the Inuit. The western part remains the Northwest Territories and the indigenous group, the Dene, have yet to begin the constitutional process of becoming a province.
Newfoundland has a group that wants to secede, too. It joined Canada in 1949 and its just returning to it's pre-Canada affluence with off-shore oil. The once great fishing industry is defunct.
Maybe Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland would create their own country with Gaelic as one of the official languages?
Western Canada, Alberta and British Columbia, has a group wanting to join Washington and Oregon states to create the country of Cascadia. An official language here could be highly debated, as immigration from Asia is big in all four jurisdictions.
Highly speculative, but intriguing, this topic has become.
So that Quebec issue was serious to many people. We kind of wondered what it would be like to add a predominantly French-speaking area to our country if Quebec were to actually secede from Canada and want to join up with us since we are predominantly not well versed in French. It would have kicked our foreign language studies into higher gear if Quebec would have joined us.
Let's see: NS, PE, and NL create their own country (Gaelic the official language? That would be a reason to spread it south the the US). QC secedes from Canada and joins the US. What of NB? Should they secede along with NS, PE, and NL to form a new nation, or secede and join US along with QC? If NB seceded from Canada and joined the US, then people here would finally have to learn to stop abbreviating Nebraska as NB instead of the proper NE (it really annoys me that people move my neighboring state to another country! - not that I have anything against Canada, I just want these USers to pay attention to the fact that there are other countries on this continent!)
Some in AB and BC want to secede from Canada and have WA and OR secede from the US and make another country. I don't know how Canada feels about secession (although we have been having all sorts of Provinces secede in this discussion), but we fought a bloody war here in the US over secession. I don't know how another attempt at secession would go over with the US. (Although the issue of slavery is not involved this time.) The US would likely be happier adding Provinces rather than losing States. The US might be quite content adding AB and BC. (It would make it easier to go visit Sarah Palin in AK). And since some of the US States call themselves Republics and Rhode Island officially calls itself a State and a Plantation, I think we could abide having States that called themselves Provinces.
Now that we have removed the maritime Provinces, QC, AB and BC, what does the rest of Canada want to do? If there would have been a few votes different a couple of centuries ago, this would not be an issue since we would all be part of the same "whatever we would have named it" country. Maybe we could just all get together and become the United Provinces and States of North America. UPSNA? (We couldn't call ourselves simply the United Provinces and States since UPS is already taken by the United Parcel Service.) Once we all learn English, French, Gaelic and a few more languages, then we could become more well versed in Spanish and just become the Nation of North America? (NNA since NA is the abbreviation for "not applicable.")
From discussing Clan mottoes to reconfiguring the political lines of a continent! (Hopefully without war.) Let's be Kennedys on this one - Consider the end! What would be the outcome of such a change? Something to ponder, indeed.
Next week we leave on our "summer" vacation. We are spending a week in NH. To get there, we found it would be easier to go east from IA to MI, travel through ON and QC to get back to the US. After a week in NH, we are spending a week on the Georgian Bay in ON. When we were planning our trip, we were surprised to find Nunavut on the map. It wasn't there when my husband and I were in school studying geography. Up north, there was just the Yukon and Northwest Territories (hooked on to what our out-dated textbooks called the Territory of Alaska; by the time we reached high school, our schools had new textbooks). Anyone have any suggestions as to what to do and see to make our experience in ON specially Canadian, or even better, specially Scottish Canadian?
Well, I was going to respond to your hilarious comments about secession, but ON's geography I know well as I grew up there.
Georgian Bay you will find lots of interesting history with regards to early Scottish immigration.
At Midland there is a museum showing life in the late 1600s. This is when Jesuits were trying to cultivate the Huron, Objibwe and Iroquois to the Catholic Church. The Iroquois and Huron had a long standing war and the Iroquois sided with the Mohawk and both were noted in their viciousness.
Southwest of Midland, on Lake Huron shores there is a provincial park called Inverhuron, near Kincardine. At the entrance of the park, to the left and hidden amongst the bush, you will find the small graveyard of Scottish settlers, all dates are in the late 1600s.
This whole area is where many from Scotland went and ended up entangled in the wars between the Native nations. The whole area, right down to Newmarket, was cleared and farmed by the Scottish.
North of Midland, at the tip of the peninsula there is Tobermory where you can catch a ferry to Manitoulin Islands. This area is traditionally Objiwe and just south of Tobermory is a campground run by the Objiwe on their reservation. They had, and should still have, a small historical museum.
Manitoulin Islands are the main Objibwe home, although they're territory did go as far north as Sudbury. I have camped in Kilarney Park and not far to the east is one of the biggest and most beautiful Parks in all of Canada - Algonquin. Deep rivers connecting to deep, tiny lakes. That latitude from Manitoba to New Brunswick is full of tiny lakes connected by rivers and was portaged by the ... oops! I forget the name of the group who used them to transport animal furs in canoes down to Montreal, Kingston, etc. French Canadian group.... ahh, my mind is drawing a blank.
Anyway, that whole area is being built up with houses. Little will be the same as when I romped in the area.
Another place in that area of some interest to some, is Penetanguishene, where Canada's criminally insane are housed. They may still have a museum in town, as it, too, is a Huron/Iroquois/Jesuit site.
Of course, if you're taking Hwy 11 (aka Yonge Street) up, then stop by the house I grew up in. It's still there, along with the school and playgrounds in Aurora. - Just joking.
Enjoy your holidays, Joanne.
I'm waiting for your response to my comments about breaking Canada apart piece by piece. Sometimes I get an image in my mind and get it going and can really come up with some wild ideas. (I kind of think that Canada is going to stay together for awhile yet.)
And thanks for the suggestions about places to go while in ON. Except for crossing the border in TX and going into Mexico on a few occasions, taking a cruise and going to Bahamas once, and crossing the border at Niagra Falls over 30 years ago, I haven't traveled outside of the US. I want to see and experience things that really make it special and set it apart beyond the fact that Canadians have different dialects from the Upper Midwestern we speak where I am from. Speaking of dialects, one time when we lived in far nothern Iowa, my husband and I went on a January vacation to southern MN. Some people asked me where we were from since we had accents. I asked where they thought we were from. They told me I sounded like I was from Texas and my husband was from some place in Europe. (We are both native northern Iowans.) In August (the same year) we took a vacation to Texas. I was asked where we came from because we had such heavy accents. They thought I was from Canada and my husband was from Europe. (Either my husband and I talk really strange or those people from MN and TX don't get around much!)
As for some of the suggestions: we love going to museums, so that was right up our alley. In addition, before we moved to Des Moines, my husband was on the professional staff of the state institution known as the Clarinda Treatment Complex. The CTC had originally been built as a facility for the incurably insane. With modern drugs and psychotherapy, they have been able to shorten stays from lifetime to weeks. In the '70s they turned a building of the mental hospital into a correctional facility. My husband was one of the few people on staff who served at both the mental health institution and the prison, so we would find the place for the criminally insane to be of interest. Thanks for all of your suggestions!
quickfind:alysen > "mm I wonder if changing the name would be of interest to Nova Scotians. There are a number of members living there, posing the question in Scotster would give the answer."
I got around to posting the question about translating the name of NS. Now we can see if anyone has an opinon about it!
quickfind:jokennedy > "so we would find the place for the criminally insane to be of interest."
Try Ottawa, where our Victorian-thinking politicians hang out. ;-)
A large portion of English Canada speculated if Quebec did join the USA their French-holier-than-thou attitude would be kicked to the curb faster than the next Hollywood scandal could hit the media. The French language in every government office, or street sign would be a non-starter, as we all know the USA's constitution rarely gets an amendment, and when it does it's because of the need of the vast majority. There would have been loud laughter emanating from north of the 49th.
NB voted against Quebec's secession, they wouldn't join PEI, NS and NFLD. NB is where most of the loyalist landed in the 1770s: maybe that's why your fellow citizens keep using NB for NE?
Not all of NFLD wants to get back to the good ole days of 1948, but they all supported their Premier against Ottawa to maintain control over the offshore oil. It was a tough battle. For awhile we thought we were going to lose our most hospitable citizens and all the Newfie jokes would end in the sad punchline, "They left".
Some of our funniest comedians hail from NFLD and are the source of the Newfie jokes. I would say losing NFLD would have resulted in Canada's great wailing and most of us take up arms against Ottawa to keep the Newfies. So far so good, they're holding up the eastern seaboard.
Ahh, Cascadia is an American idea. They invited AB & BC. Some BC lumbermen were thrilled at the thought of having direct-no-Ottawa-interference access to American lumber markets. Others were thinking of how to control the fresh water in both US and Canada. Then there are the Greens - the environmentalists - who think the creation of Cascadia is the only way to save America's west coast from land developers. You may have noted California has not been included, because silicon is unnatural, even though every environmentalist owns a computer.
SK, MN, NWT, YK and NT are all happy with the status quo, as they are all way too busy dealing with their daily lives. But, if you bring up health care in SK you'll find yourself embroiled in a heated debate, as one of their Premier's was the founding father of Canada's national health program, and are flaming at how it has devolved. (By the way, the grandson of the SK Premier is Keifer Sutherland. Just a Hollywood tidbit.)
So, how do you like the non-descript way Canada split a territory in two and the eastern part became a province? The strangest part of this historic event is it took many Canadians a couple of years to realize the changes. There was no fanfare, no national campaign to celebrate, just an announcement on the CBC for a day. It could be the Inuit wanted it this way, as they often shy away from the limelight.
But, let's go back to your suggestions of USPN. OMG you expect Canadians to accept United States and Provinces? No way, it has to be United Provinces and States, and those wearing the brown uniforms can whistle if they think they're keeping the UPS acronym.
And Palin having anything politically easier any time soon is a pipe dream. Yet, if she asks really politely we would probably give her a place of respite. She could eventually enter Canadian politics, but will, of course, have to educate herself on how to take the Victorian mindset and apply it to modern technology before she could truly fit into Ottawa's insane arena. There's a TV station broadcasting from Parliament to help her.
Now... what were we originally talking about?
quickfind:alysen > "Ahh, Cascadia is an American idea. They invited AB & BC."
I don't think I ever heard of the idea of Cascadia before you brought it up, so I thought it must have been a Canadian idea. I never realized it was some USers that thought it up. And I would never have thought that CA would ever belong with AB, BC, OR, and WA. The four "Cascadian" provinces and states fit together in many ways. CA fits with itself. We keep it with the rest of the US out of habit. And because it brings so much tax revenue to our federal government.
quickfind:alysen > "
But, let's go back to your suggestions of USPN. OMG you expect Canadians to accept United States and Provinces? No way, it has to be United Provinces and States, and those wearing the brown uniforms can whistle if they think they're keeping the UPS acronym."
My suggestion was the United Provinces and States of North America. UPSNA. First of all, Province is alphabetically before State. Second, if we used United States and Provinces, all of the southerners (current USA, not just Dixielanders) would shorten it to United States (since they already do that any way) and that wouldn't be fair. And trying to run the currrent name of the two together would just be complicated. I suggested that we had to use the North America in the name so that it wouldn't be abbreviated UPS. We will let "Brown" keep its initials and its color.
quickfind:alysen > " maybe that's why your fellow citizens keep using NB for NE?"
Many of my fellow citizens keep abbreviating NE as NB because they don't pay attention to the facts. I am from IA. I find that many outside of IA abbreviate it as IO which is computer talk for input/output. Many of these same people confuse IA with ID and OH. They just didn't bother to learn history and geography back in school. I find it annoying that they can't remember that Canada is next door to us and has names for places like NB. Many USers are known to think that New Mexico is part of Mexico, and that Baja California is part of the Republic of California (known to many as the State of California). Uneducated USers really bug me. (Not that we all are uneducated, just some of us are.) A number of years ago, I read a proofread a textbook written by a professional textbook author who stated that the University of Nebraska was in Lincoln, NB. I put in my proofreading comments that I understood that the University of Nebraska was not in New Brunswick, Canada. That was from a professional who should have known his abbreviations and should have checked out his facts before committing them to written word! (They editor fixed the author's error after discovering that I was correct.)
quickfind:alysen > " But, if you bring up health care in SK you'll find yourself embroiled in a heated debate, as one of their Premier's was the founding father of Canada's national health program, and are flaming at how it has devolved. (By the way, the grandson of the SK Premier is Keifer Sutherland. Just a Hollywood tidbit.)"
Health care - Oh there's an example of an hot issue in the US right now. Barak Hussein Obama wants to do a government thing with it. The people who want the government involved in it have cited Canada as an example of what a good idea it is. The people opposed to it have cited Canada as an example of what a bad idea it is.
And Keifer Sutherland. First, the Illinois native, actor, Ronald Reagan (who got his start in show biz on radio stations in IA) became governor of CA. (And later pres of US.) And then Austrian native, actor, Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of CA. Will Keifer Sutherland, Canadian native, actor, become governor of CA too? (Except sometimes acting the role of politician may be better than actually being a politician seeing how politicians can really muck things up sometimes!)
quickfind:alysen > "And Palin having anything politically easier any time soon is a pipe dream. Yet, if she asks really politely we would probably give her a place of respite. She could eventually enter Canadian politics, but will, of course, have to educate herself on how to take the Victorian mindset and apply it to modern technology before she could truly fit into Ottawa's insane arena. There's a TV station broadcasting from Parliament to help her."
I wasn't talking about making things easier for Sarah Palin politically, just that the only way to get to AK from the lower 48 is either by sea, by air, or through Canada. If BC and AB were to secede from Canada and join the US, then we could get to AK by land without going through another country. (Although taking Yukon along would make it even easier to get there.) And I put Sarah Palin in there because she is the brunt of so many jokes right now. And down here in IA, we don't know too much about AK except we bought it from Russia, it is big, it has glaciers, and its capital is Juneau. Sarah Palin, as much as political punsters joke about her, made us a tiny more aware of AK. Now we know that AK governors go game hunting, even ones that are kind of on the pretty side. In history class, we learn about Seward's Folly (buying AK from Russia). Now we can add to that Sarah's Folly (Sarah Palin thinking that anyone outside of AK would take her seriously).
quickfind:alysen > "Now... what were we originally talking about?"
Let's see - should mottoes on clan badges be written in Gaelic instead of Latin? How about we compromise: Canada can keep all of Canada intact and the badges can add the Gaelic along with the Latin until the Scots in dispersion learn Gaelic. Sound good?
I know you are correcting me, but you do have a funny bent in doing so. And, I see some of my tongue-in-cheek has been lost, especially the Palin thing. For some unknown reason Canadians have a reputation of being overly polite. mmm... wonder if it was our propagandist who came up with that.
quickfind:jokennedy > "That was from a professional who should have known his abbreviations and should have checked out his facts"
We have a Newfie comedian, Rick Mercer, who did a series of TV specials, entitled, "Talking to Americans". It is hard to say if the show is actually setting Canadian or Americans up for the jokes, but it's very funny. The premise was he would go to an American city and asked Americans about Canada. The setups are outlandish, for example, he went to Harvard and asked a professor and students what they thought about Canada inaugurating our first king, King Sven. The punchline is seeing them say, "Congratulations Canada on your first King".
I say it's hard to know if he's setting us up by using the impression that Americans know nothing about the most basic of Canadian life. I've traveled, as you know, and met many who did and didn't know about life in Canada. You definitely don't get the truth about our health care system.
Maybe Americans should come up to SK and talk health care. There are a lot of misconceptions and it might just be because the same drugs are cheaper here. It's almost as if Canada has become the mythical utopia of health care. Keifer's mom is very politically active in SK. Politics and acting go hand in hand... different sides of the same coin?
Anyway, I'm totally off topic, but I started it and so let the weaving in and out be!
Ahh, Latin and Greek are the foundations of the medical world! Let's force all to be translated to Gaelic, let the others die.
I visit my relatives in Toronto and Kitchener every couple of years and have always been struck by how polite Canadians
are. You bump into them, accidently, and they apologise. Even the jacke-ies (bums/winos) have perfect manners. When I attended the annual Kitchener-Waterloo Octoberfest
parade, i as amazed and impressed that despite the thousands of folks who lined the route from 06.00 -12.00noon, families with picnics etc, the route was litter free
when they departed. That certainly wouldn't happen in Scotland, any big event that's on over here and the place is
a total midden. We could all learn a lot from Canada.
Well Davie that isn't the case with all of Canada.
Vancouver and surrounding cities are never clean - with two exceptions of Delta and West Vancouver - always has garbage lying on the ground.
After a large gathering, like the six firework displays in the summer, there is a tonne of garbage on the beaches. The coming Olympics should be interesting with all that is planned throughout the area.
Politeness doesn't happen here, either. The least polite area in all of Canada. People here have no care in regards to others from saying, "excuse me" to speeding through school zones in their cars.
Now for the greatest hospitality one must go to Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. I must have taken a wrong turn when I left Toronto. I miss the politeness.
quickfind:alysen > "Well Davie that isn't the case with all of Canada. "
When I visited Ontario on vacation in September, I found a curious mix of manners. In some ways the Canadians were very polite. However, when it came to their behavior towards the physically impaired, I prefer the people I see in the US. I also found there was incredibly insufficient handicapped parking and there seemed to be almost none with wheel chair access. I had a lovely visit with a Canadian lass. She is a member of the Canadian armed forces (army or air force, can't remember which), while my youngest son is a member of the First Armored Division of the US Army. (By the way, my son's enlistment is ending. He will be home in about 2 weeks. We are excited about that!)
I have way to many crests.. Um ok. lets see.
Macgellan : Sine Fine( Without End)
Macdonald : By sea and By air
Fraser of Lovat: Je Suis Prest (I am ready)
Ross: Spem Successus Alit (Succes nourishes hope)
Maclean: Virtue mine honour
Royal Stuart: Virescit vulnere virtus (Courage grows stronger at the wound)
O'connor: O Dhia gach an cabhair(from god every help)
Thanks, Hilary. And, lucky you to have so many to rely upon.
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